Curse

agk512 · Sep 17, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

ive been exploring cantha for a while to get the 100% explorers title and its taking quite a long time. to explore 2 areas its takes me about 90 minutes to get absolutely everyting in those areas. i have about 80 percent and once i get to like 95 or something like that its going to be a bitch to get the last percents. i hate seeing people complain about the map size of cantha and compairing it with tyria. couple of reasons for this
ive seen one person in my 7 months of playing playing guild wars with somebody with the title of 100% canthan exploration. the next highest title ive seen is a couple of 80%, but mostly 70 and a ton of 60s. this tells me that there are a ton of people that complain about the "small" map size of cantha and do nothing about it, and there is a very small majority of people that actualy want to see if the map is so small afterall, and realize that it isnt that small. sure its a little less than half the size of tyria, but it is still a pretty massive map. there is gates to the missions, and im not to fond of those, but that gives you abslolutly no reason to say that your not going to explore because of a mission gate. stop being a pussy and take about 20 minutes out of your time to do the mission. its not that bad considering that to explore one area completely in 20 minutes is making pretty good timing. also, you dont need to be a warior to be an explorer. grab henchies or guildies and start fighting your way thru the area, and it will be more effective too because you wont miss any spots because you had to run away from a mob.
ive seen about 5 people with a tyrian 100% explorers title, which tells me that exploring tyria is more popular, but it also tells me that exploring overal is not something that is favored over the comunity. thats fine with me, but anybody with under 95% of the map who starts to complain about the map size, then that gets on my nerves.

Phaern Majes · Sep 17, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by agk512

i have about 80 percent

Quote:

Originally Posted by agk512

but anybody with under 95% of the map who starts to complain about the map size, then that gets on my nerves.

So based on those 2 things why did you start this thread?

Res Ipsi · Sep 17, 2006, 04:40 AM // 04:40

Well, Cantha is smaller. But I'm not complaining. I've mapped Cantha sporadically, and with no real effort, and am up to 85%. It was much more labour intensive to map Tyria.

Kook~NBK~ · Sep 17, 2006, 05:14 AM // 05:14

Cantha is actually about 2/3 the size of Tyria. And I found that it's actually a bit more of a pain to explore, especially in the city with all those little nooks and crannies and the obstacles that you have to go around. Plus, the map comparison trick given in the Tyrian Explorers' Forum doesn't work well at all for Cantha.

There's a whole bunch of people out there that have grandmaster's title for Tyria, Cantha, or both. You may not see them because their either showing a different title at the time or got those titles for the personal satisfaction and don't bother displaying titles at all.

*Ponders how long it will take for the mods to move this to the Cantha Explorer's Forum*

milias · Sep 17, 2006, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Cantha is actually about 2/3 the size of Tyria.

Can you elaborate a bit more on how you arrived at that number? Is there some reference from which you're citing?

bigwig · Sep 17, 2006, 07:53 AM // 07:53

i believe in an interview, someone said that cantha was 3/4ths the size of tyria. Whether he was talking about actual map content or continent wise, i don't know.

mega_jamie · Sep 17, 2006, 07:57 AM // 07:57

The trouble Mr OP for mapping of Cantha compaired to maping of Tyria, for me atleast was simply a case of the locked gates ruined it for me.

The very first gate I made it to with my Assassin, who I made in the day before official release event thing was the gate to the first mission area. The very next gateI found was the gate blocking where that puts you. The next gate I found myself at stopped me getting into the second mission area.

And so on, by the time I actually gave up mapping that accursed city and finally got outside, instead of thinking "oooh I wonder what's down that way let's go look" I thought "Oooh I wonder how many different locked gates will annoy me down there, F*** that for a laugh."

There are huge chunks of the map, especially on Kurzick side that are mapable, but when you reach them your so jaded by the terrible gates system you cant be bothered to go there incase it's a waste of time.

I like to explore, when I first entered Post-Searing Ascalon I ignored the primary quests for a while and pretty much mapped the whole area of Ascalon to the second mission, and nearly did the second mission before the first as thats where I wound up, it was fun to be able to run off and just explore without worrying that there would be a man telling me I have to audition for the part of FedEx worker before I can enter his gate.

Cantha was small, it also had too much of the same non-primary missions, and even some primary missions were very samely, City Under Attack and Battle in the Sewers anybody? It also had locked gates.

In Otherwords OP I personally complain about the map size coupled with the locked gates and boring quests. I could deal with the Canthan map being the size it is if I could freely explore, but what's the point of not following the primary quests when your likely to find a locked gate?

Without the locked gates many people would feel the map was alot bigger than they currently do, I have to say respect to the Devs for trying to have people follow the story properly and take in the community view on runners etc, but thewy got it wrong imo, a smaller world map was made to feel even smaller.

Taurohtar · Sep 17, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Can you elaborate a bit more on how you arrived at that number? Is there some reference from which you're citing?

I make it 75% of the size of Tyria, based on an old thread mentioning that 3 small "clouds" are needed in Cantha for 0.1%, while 4 "clouds" are needed in Tyria. Just my opinion but it does have some reason.

RossMM · Sep 17, 2006, 10:28 AM // 10:28

I think part of the reason Cantha feels so small is there are no explorable areas without an adjoining outpost. In Tyria places like The Falls, Majesty's Rest, Mineral Springs take a good long trek to get to, so they feel suitably remote. In Cantha even the out-of-the-way places have outposts bordering them (Rhea's Crater and Mourning Veil Falls being good examples) so there is less travel time. This makes it quicker to map Cantha as travelling to the bits you've missed is faster, and so it makes it feel like a much smaller continent than Tyria.

That said I personally think Cantha has less lee-way on the 100% title than Tyria, so getting some of the stranger bits of fog becomes more important (the ones where you need to REALLY hug a wall to get them). This offsets the relative smallness of the continent a little when it comes to the difficulty of getting 100%.

majoho · Sep 17, 2006, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by mega_jamie

The trouble Mr OP for mapping of Cantha compaired to maping of Tyria, for me atleast was simply a case of the locked gates ruined it for me.... yadayadayada

jesh, play the first three missions and there are no locked gates, how hard can that be?

Also I don't see why you explore while you actually 'play' the game, I though most people did it when the were done with the game. (not that there's anything wrong with your way)

logan90 · Sep 17, 2006, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by agk512

ive seen about 5 people with a tyrian 100% explorers title, which tells me that exploring tyria is more popular, but it also tells me that exploring overal is not something that is favored over the comunity

If you had both Tyrian GM Cartographer and Canthan GM Cartographer, which would you wear? Tyria is bigger so most people who have both would probably wear the Tyrian one. Some of those 5 you saw could have had both of the titles, you just didnt know it. Or at least thats what i do. I have both of the titles but i chose to wear the Tyrian GMC all the time as it took so much more time and effort. So your numbers could be off..

KoalaMeatPie · Sep 17, 2006, 05:14 PM // 17:14

For The Record, Cantha Is 70% The Size of Tyria

1 Blip on the Map of Cantha is 0.1% on Blip on Tyria is 0.07%. The math Makes it 70%.

milias · Sep 17, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoalaMeatPie

For The Record, Cantha Is 70% The Size of Tyria

1 Blip on the Map of Cantha is 0.1% on Blip on Tyria is 0.07%. The math Makes it 70%.

Hmm, it looked much smaller on screen

logan90 · Sep 17, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoalaMeatPie

For The Record, Cantha Is 70% The Size of Tyria

1 Blip on the Map of Cantha is 0.1% on Blip on Tyria is 0.07%. The math Makes it 70%.

That is not true. I noticed while exploring that it takes 2 "blips" in Cantha for 0.1% and 3 "blips" in Tyria for 0.1%. That would make Cantha roughly 66% of the size of Tyria.

RossMM · Sep 17, 2006, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Well, 66% and 70% are pretty much the same number, given the sort of errors that could crop up in these methods of testing.

Kook~NBK~ · Sep 17, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by milias

Can you elaborate a bit more on how you arrived at that number? Is there some reference from which you're citing?

I think it's from guildwiki. Been a while since I've done the cartographer thing.

*still pondering*

logan90 · Sep 17, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

I figured out where he got those figures from..

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuildWiki

A fully explored area equal to the size of the radar around a player equals roughly 0.1% of Cantha. The percentage is less for Tyria (about 0.07%) as it is a larger continent.

So i guess by blip he meant the radar. I thought by blip he meant a single dot of uncovered area on the map. A single dot in Cantha is 0.05% and in Tyria is 0.033% (rough estimations based on how many dots are needed for 0.1%) so it is true that every 0.1% in Cantha is only equal to roughly 0.07% in Tyria.

Taurohtar · Sep 17, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan90

If you had both Tyrian GM Cartographer and Canthan GM Cartographer, which would you wear? Tyria is bigger so most people who have both would probably wear the Tyrian one. Some of those 5 you saw could have had both of the titles, you just didnt know it. Or at least thats what i do. I have both of the titles but i chose to wear the Tyrian GMC all the time as it took so much more time and effort. So your numbers could be off..

If I was Tyrian and had both Grandmaster Cartographer titles I would wear the Canthan. Having 100% exploration of my non-homeland seems a little better to me.

strcpy · Sep 18, 2006, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Also I don't see why you explore while you actually 'play' the game, I though most people did it when the were done with the game. (not that there's anything wrong with your way)

Because taking a group and exploring is as much playing the game as going through missons. Especially in games like this. I generally explore when not playing missions and Factions greatly restricts this.

Really, I don't necessarily dislike locked gates - some of them make quite a bit of sense. But most of them are just there for no in game reason what-so-ever, or if one is given it is *really* contrived. Until you have completed an area it *really* discourages exploration, there is little in the game more irritating than finding a gate is locked for no real reason.

If they wanted to stop running it's not that hard - add enemies to the map, when a way is found to run add some that break it. I'm not that great yet I can see how to do it and some areas of Tyria are un-runnable but a balanced party is perfectly able to go through. It is also totally possible to not allow you to enter a mission unless you have done the one before (kinda like Luxons not letting non-Luxons purchase good from them or some of the quests that require you to have done one before it).

Ahh well, anti-running has been beat to death. I really could care less if one can run or not, it is not what I'm talking about. I'm happy if you can (and have used it), happy if you can not (I've also fought to many areas I could get run too). I just don't like having such restricted areas I can not explore - it is lazy game mechanics and the mechanism is intrusive/frustrating. Especially for those "casual" gamers that Anet talks about (those with large active guilds can get carried through a mission anyway - casual gamers get screwed).

And, finally, I agree that the map size of Cantha feels smaller by the locked gates. I also think that having outposts near every area contributes. Lastly I think that doing things like having the "Undercity" and "Xaquang Skyway" occupy the same map area really hurts them - especially as far as an explorer titles goes. Too much of it feels like the same thing over and over making it "feel" smaller, even if it really isn't by much.